להתחברות

Kivunim Beit-Midrash

שקרים לבנים | עמוד דיון

תקציר

עמדות פתיחה

שקרים לבנים

כיצד מצילים חבר מזוגיות רעה

Beit Hillel

Beit Hillel

You should always praise a bride
for her beauty.

you cannot offend someone
just  because of truth.

see the Talmudic debate here

1
Beit Shamai

Beit Shamai

Always?!

and what if she is ugly?
You cannot lie:!!

praise her, for what she is.

see the Talmudic debate here

1

סיכום ביניים

Seinfeld's dilemma of truth versus compassion was compared to a Talmudic debate about how to complement an ugly bride. While both values are considered very important in the Jewish tradition , Beit Hilllel claimed that you cannot offend someone for the sake of sticking to the truth. An interesting rebuttal was made that this will lead to a phony polite society where you can never know what others are thinking of you (as illustrated in the Seinfeld ugly baby episode).

The discussion moved to  terminally ill patient dilemma.about his body a Rabbinic ruling made the point that not telling the truth will create a panic in other patients who will be burdened with insecurity about their own fate.

הדיון המורחב

x

In terms of the ugly baby episode, I think this is a situation where you must lie. A baby is a sensitive issue enough where not a singke parent wants to think that their child is ugly. The emotions and love attached to the baby are so strong that if any friend tells the parents it is ugly is a huge insult. Even if the parents recognize the fact that the baby is ugly, they find the  cute aspects of the child and that is all that they want to see.

Answer

Alana Spellman

4 תגובות
  • x

    Couldn't you also use this logic over the question of whether to tell your friend their partner is a monster? A partner in a relationship also has emotion attached, potentially strong emotions, and if your friend hears that that you think their partner is a monster, they could be very insulted. Do you then also think that you should lie when you think your friend's partner is a monster?5

    Question

    Max Sosland

  • x

    While I agree with most of what you said, I don't think that in this scenario you have to lie. Perhaps you can just entirely avoid any commenting regarding the baby's appearance.

    Contradict

    אלכס רויזמן

  • x

    What does it mean to be ugly? Are we only talking about physical attractiveness?

    Question

    Joshua Silverman

  • x

    But isn't also a good idea to avoid talking about the baby's looks after all? According to Beit Shamai in the text, you should avoid talking about the baby's look period. There are so many things one can talk about when seeing the baby, like talking about the name, the cute little feet, etc.

    Question

    Ari Spellman

עדינה גוטליב

Max Sosland

אלכס רויזמן

3 תגובות
  • Question

    Alana Spellman

  • אלכס רויזמן

  • עדינה גוטליב

Ari Spellman

2 תגובות
  • Tamar Willis

  • Disprove

    Ari Spellman

Ari Spellman

תגובה אחת
  • Ari Spellman

Contradiction

Ari Spellman

Disprove

Ari Spellman

Joshua Silverman

עדינה גוטליב

Alana Spellman

Ari Spellman

x

Hi Guys

In Seinfeld- ugly baby episode,

Elaine gets in to trouble with the baffling and charming pediatrician.

do you think that it can provide support the opinions of  Beit Shamai or Brit Hillel ?

is there something new to learn from one of the great Talmudist of our time Rabbi J, Seinfeld?5

עורך

אודי ליאון

Matt Gluck